“Liminal Shrines” is the first half of a two-part concept, how early did you map out the full vision, and did it change while writing this album?
We came up with the idea of doing a concept album after we had written most of the tracks and realized we had enough material for a double album. We were talking in the band chat and Justin tossed out the idea of doing two related albums, which we all loved (especially since most of us are progheads!) At that point I hadn’t written any of the lyrics, and we needed a couple more songs, so that definitely helped shape the remaining tracks and what the songs and overall concept would be about. But once we had the general idea in mind it pretty much stayed the same.
Compared to “Durance Of Lightless Horizons” and “Breathing Obelisk”, this record pushes further into intricate songwriting, what was the biggest challenge in keeping everything coherent?
Before we started writing any of the material, we all sat down and discussed what influences we wanted to bring to the writing table and what we wanted to focus on songwriting wise on the next album. Once we had that plan in mind it helped keep us on track for the songs that appear on “Liminal Shrines”, more of a focus on leads and melodies, progressive song structuring but also a bit more of the aggressive death metal influences that were present on the earlier releases (but not as up front). So although this led to more intricate songs it allowed us to keep that idea as our north star and (hopefully) put together an album that flows despite having songs that are more involved than previous.
The album blends progressive ideas with a heavy death and doom foundation. How do you decide when a part needs to evolve versus when it should stay raw and direct?
Great question and a difficult one to pin down. A lot of the time the songs we write start with a riff or an idea of a style of riff, and then that becomes the path that leads the rest of the song to come together. Sometimes at the onset that initial riff (or the riffs that flow from that) foreshadow what type of song that will be, longer or shorter, more intricate or straightforward etc. So depending on how the song is coming together it will help dictate the way that the riff should be presented. For example that Opethy riff after the solo section in “Lead Me Beyond The Sleeping I” came together in a way that just made sense to have it be longer and build on itself, in the original iteration it was actually only half as long but after listening to the completed demo we realized it needed to be expanded even more. So it all depends on what the song ends up becoming and how each of the riffs will service the overall structure or feel of it.
The guitar work is very layered and dynamic. How do Daniel Bonofiglio and you approach writing together. Is it structured collaboration or more instinctive back and forth?
That all depends on the song. Some songs we’ve written together, where we pass riffs and ideas back and forth and others we write on our own. However Dan and I have been writing music together for over 20 years so regardless of how it’s done we always try to insert parts or leads that give us each the ability to do something different or unique from the other. Sometimes it’s a harmonized part of the riff, a lead melody overtop or a trade off solo section. But we always have the other in mind when writing in that regard, if not to make the song more interesting then to keep us on our toes playing wise.
The atmosphere leans heavily into cosmic horror, what draws you to that theme, and how do you translate it into sound without relying on surface-level tricks?
Thematically it’s just something that I’ve always enjoyed, growing up reading Stephen King and playing games like HOMM3, Diablo and Eternal Darkness have definitely helped stoke that interest, but it also pairs really well with the proggy doomy death metal that we play. Translating that sound is a tough one. I know at least for me I really try to focus on having the song dictate, or at least influence, the lyrics: if a song has a real oppressive and evil sounding riff structure that will in turn make the lyrics try to capture that feeling (and in turn the guitar leads and melodies, both harmonically and tonally, will be influenced in that same way). But how to properly point to why a riff sounds one way or the other, or why this lead melody with that effect makes more sense than the other, is hard because there’s nothing really objective to hang your hat on. A lot of the times it will come down to Dan and I saying “that riff kinda sounds like this” or gives off a feeling and we kind of just run with that.
"You can still hear our original sound is in these tracks but we definitely wanted to push ourselves technically compared to the earlier stuff."
You recorded across multiple studios, Boxcar Sound, Mount Wexler, and Dystonic Sounds, did that affect the final sound or the way the album came together?
I don’t think so, or at least not in a negative way or a way that was done consciously with respect to the final product. We do drums at boxcar because (a) Sean Pearson is great to work with and the room there is amazing but also (b) we don’t have the resources or abilities to record drums ourselves. All the guitars are handled at our home studios because Dan and I have done a ton of home recording (with Gutvoid and our side projects) so we are comfortable doing that, which affords us some comfort to take our time recording and saves us on costs. Vocals I also do at Boxcar even though I can do them at home, mainly because working with Sean helps me get the best performance but also because the gear is better than what I have at home!
Greg Dawson handled mixing and mastering, what did he bring to the table that helped shape the final identity of “Liminal Shrines”?
Beyond his incredible expertise and ear, Greg definitely helped out in a number of ways, such as troubleshooting some minor tech issues that came our way, helping craft some of the lead tones on the album and was a great sounding board for some ideas. He’s also a really friendly, easy going and professional guy so he was also great at making the mixing and mastering process go smoothly!
The songs stretch into longer forms, what keeps you engaged when writing extended compositions instead of trimming them down?
Similar to some of the above responses, most of the time the songs write themselves so their longer form just kind of comes out by virtue of the riffs or the driving force behind them. But both Dan and I are huge prog fans and so listening to and writing long songs is in our blood (we were writing 12+ minute long songs in our very first band Adytum back in 2004), and Den and Justin don’t shy away from longer stuff either. Though we definitely do like to throw in a lot of stuff in our songs to keep us engaged, changing time signatures, riffs that differ slightly when they repeat, lots of leads and melodies, drum feel changes etc, so we certainly lean on those in the longer songs so things don’t stay stale or just meander on one theme too long. Even tracks like “Lead Me Beyond The Sleeping I”, although the intro is long before vocals kick in, there’s a lot of subtle changes going on to not make it just a vamp for 2 minutes!
There’s a clear sense of growth from your earlier releases, what did you consciously want to improve or push further this time?
Thank you. Yeah we sat down and talked as a band before starting writing “Liminal Shrines” about where we wanted our sound to go compared to the early stuff. As mentioned before you can still hear our original sound is in these tracks but we definitely wanted to push ourselves technically compared to the earlier stuff. A lot more playing around with time signatures, a lot more guitar solos and exciting drum parts, some new stuff sonically, all of that was at the forefront when writing, learning and recording these songs.
With the second part of the concept already planned, are you approaching it as a continuation of the same sound, or are you aiming to shift the direction again?
As both albums were written at the same time, I think you can expect to hear a continuation of the songwriting found on “Liminal Shrines”, however to me the batch of songs on the next album are different. They seem a little darker and brooding to me, a little slower in tempo and more straightforward on the whole maybe. But that’s not to say it’s a massive shift at all, I just think if you were to compare the two “Liminal Shrines” is maybe a bit brighter and melodic, but I’m also saying that as only having the demo tracks to go by. The final album will inevitably have more leads, different drums and vocals so it won’t really be known until the master is in our hands. But nonetheless it will act as a great sister album to “Liminal Shrines” and the two will be able to be listened to seamlessly and flow well song wise as if one giant album.
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